Comments on: Mood: Jaded http://www.karlkatzke.com/mood-jaded/ Geek of the Week Tue, 27 Sep 2011 13:39:59 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Antoine http://www.karlkatzke.com/mood-jaded/comment-page-1/#comment-112 Antoine Tue, 06 Nov 2007 14:16:24 +0000 http://www.karlkatzke.com/mood-jaded/#comment-112 Thanks for this post. I am (trying to) learn Symfony, but I also feel it quite complex to understand all these yml config. And yes, you generate a lot of code, so what happens when you need to refactor?? So is it true then, that PHP doesn't have one single good framework? Are we condemned to use ASP.NET if we want to quickly build running applications? Disappointing, but maybe true... Thanks for this post.

I am (trying to) learn Symfony, but I also feel it quite complex to understand all these yml config. And yes, you generate a lot of code, so what happens when you need to refactor??

So is it true then, that PHP doesn’t have one single good framework? Are we condemned to use ASP.NET if we want to quickly build running applications?

Disappointing, but maybe true…

]]> By: halfer http://www.karlkatzke.com/mood-jaded/comment-page-1/#comment-114 halfer Sat, 29 Sep 2007 14:29:35 +0000 http://www.karlkatzke.com/mood-jaded/#comment-114 I agree that symfony has quite a learning curve, but that's the price for such a rich featureset. I'd wager that most beginners with symfony are coming straight from using a language (eg PHP) with no framework (as I did). On this basis it's rather like learning a new language - it's frustrating - especially to have to follow someone else's way of thinking - but it is worth it in the end. I'm not sure if the "one db per app" applies to symfony; AFAIK you can put several connections in your databases.yml and switch between them at will. In any case it sounds like the data layer is your primary complaint: you can always just use PDO or other more "low-level" engine, and write the SQL yourself. Some developers do prefer that, and if works for them, great. All that said, it may be that for your requirements, a "roll your own" approach might suit you better. No single framework is suitable for everyone. I agree that symfony has quite a learning curve, but that’s the price for such a rich featureset. I’d wager that most beginners with symfony are coming straight from using a language (eg PHP) with no framework (as I did). On this basis it’s rather like learning a new language – it’s frustrating – especially to have to follow someone else’s way of thinking – but it is worth it in the end.

I’m not sure if the “one db per app” applies to symfony; AFAIK you can put several connections in your databases.yml and switch between them at will. In any case it sounds like the data layer is your primary complaint: you can always just use PDO or other more “low-level” engine, and write the SQL yourself. Some developers do prefer that, and if works for them, great.

All that said, it may be that for your requirements, a “roll your own” approach might suit you better. No single framework is suitable for everyone.

]]> By: Thierry http://www.karlkatzke.com/mood-jaded/comment-page-1/#comment-113 Thierry Fri, 28 Sep 2007 12:33:14 +0000 http://www.karlkatzke.com/mood-jaded/#comment-113 Symfony indeed has a steep learning curve. You can actually work around the propel issues. Propel is a pain for any join query you want to write, but once you get the hang of its not too bad. There is some good stuff in the Symfony forums. Heard that the 1.3 release is a lot better (probably will be included in Symfony 1.1, currently a plugin is available for those desperate to switch) Symfony indeed has a steep learning curve.

You can actually work around the propel issues. Propel is a pain for any join query you want to write, but once you get the hang of its not too bad.
There is some good stuff in the Symfony forums.

Heard that the 1.3 release is a lot better (probably will be included in Symfony 1.1, currently a plugin is available for those desperate to switch)

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